The following first appeared in the private email list IVy-subscribers,
which was available to all those who subscribed to the
printed magazine, International Viewpoints.
Posted with permission. See Home Page: http://www.ivymag.org

From: [anon]
To: "Martin Foster" ,
Subject: Re: IVySubs: Re: Sources
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:06:07 -0000
Sender: owner-ivy-subscribers@lightlink.com


I have been following your postings to the list with great interest and I feel
that you have already made some valuable contributions to the list.  I am
sending this reply to your request for "workable tech" to the whole list mainly
because I would like to know if anyone has had any experience of Robert
Detzler's "Spiritual Response Therapy" which I have recently become
interested in.

Let me tell you something about myself first.  I spent two years on staff at
London org in the mid eighties but rebelled against the mind control and have
had very little contact with the church since then. I knew though that Hubbard
had discovered some very valuable technology and I credit him with reversing my
downward spiral and helping me to claw my way back up from the depths to which
I had sunk.  The main thing that I learnt from scientology is that you can
tackle the bank by confronting it on a gradient and this is what I have been
doing ever since.  I have made slow but steady case gain simply by applying
this basic insight, over the years but would like to accelerate the process.

I have found the Internet and the freezone to be a very valuable source of
information and I am beginning to understand what went wrong with Hubbard and
Scientology.  Like you I feel that LRH went off track in the mid
sixties and the
best explanation I have found for this was provided by fellow lister Christian
Jones who forwarded the notion that Ron got stuck in one of his own GPMs while
researching this area in the early sixties and assumed the "valence" of a
power- and money-hungry autocrat.  He certainly abandoned research into actual
GPMs (as distinct from implant GPMs) in a very sudden manner and his growing
megalomania (as shown in his "Keeping scientology working" policy letter)
appears to date from this point onwards.

Since discovering the freezone about 1.5 years ago I have done extensive search
on the internet to try to identify the most promising of the new technologies
and advancements of the tech.  I've read a lot of the pilot and the L
Kin books.
I like the pilot and think that he is a voice of reason on the internet.  I
also liked L Kin's explanations of the basics of the tech but I'm not too sure
about some of the stranger aspects of his "s" book.  I haven't seen
much to back up his account of the demise of Xenu and Yathrus (or even the
existence of Yathrus) and (as an engineer) I am very doubtful about his
assertions about Tesla free energy.  I would welcome any comments from other
listers on this.

One interesting area I found lately has been the writings of "Revenius" at :

who started out by claiming that he was the re-incarnation of Hubbard as a 12
year old boy but later backed down somewhat and claimed only to be the "spirit"
of Hubbard.  He doesn't appear to have posted since 2000 after being
very active
during that year.  I'd be interested in any theories as to his identity and
any views on his rundowns.

Anyhow back to Spiritual Response Therapy which I've become interested in this
recently.  I'm not trying to sell anybody on this but rather to share my
experiences and hope to provoke a reaction.  I got interested in this mainly
because some ex-scientologists are practicing it in the area of South Wales
that I live in.  It's got no direct connection to scientology but has some
things in common.  It goes for the basic of a chain but seeks to blow it
merely by identifying the energy flows relating to the incident.  A
pendulum is used
with charts to identify incidents (most of which are whole-track) and
energies and
it works by addressing what is termed "higher self".  I have only had one
session of this and have read the basic book, so I am no expert by any means
but I have been quite impressed by what I have seen so far.  I found
the session
itself unspectacular but spent the next few days having cognitions on the
subject area.  It is a method which has seen rapid expansion over a very short
period of time and is very easy to learn and apply.

I intend to do a course in it at the end of the month which promises to train
me and "clear" me all over the course of a weekend.  I'll let you know how
I get on.

Robert Detzler who developed Spiritual Response Therapy is a vicar or "man of
the cloth" and hence there are a lot of bible references in his writings which
I'm not very comfortable with, however his subject matter is very far from
conventional Christianity.  Some of the more unusual things his technique
addresses are:

1.     "Past lives in other dimensions" by which he means on other planets.
He claims that very often these have been located in the Pleiades
constellation and feature androgenous bodies but as they work in other
dimensions also then they cannot be viewed by people stuck in our dimension.

2.    Future lives

3.    Parallel lives.  He claims that these range from 5 to 5849 lives which we
are living concurrently.  Problems occur when the barriers between the lives
begin to break down.

He also has a cast of characters which include guardian angels, cherubs,
discarnates (body thetans to us) etc. and has the concept of a higher spirit
"committee" which guides your life end the spirit members of can be changed
according to requirements.

All pretty strange stuff (to my mind anyhow) but I have done an extensive
Internet search and have yet to discover anything negative written about him.

Apart from this, I have heard and read good things about PEAT (see article by
Christian Jones in the latest IVy) and this seems to be a fast and effective

I must point out at this stage that I don't have any auditor training apart
from doing a dianetics workshop many years ago and learning to do touch
assists so I can't claim any real expertise in this area.

Anyhow that's all I have to say for now.  I am presently looking to
buy a zapper
online as I was impressed by what you had to say about your wife's asthma.  My
daughter suffers from this as well so I am willing to give it a try.  I don't
trust my electronic skills (or patience) enough to build one on my own though
so I'll be opting for one of the ready made models.

Best regards,

----- Original Message -----
> From: Martin Foster
> To: ivy-subscribers@lightlink.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 8:37 PM
> Subject: IVySubs: Re: Sources
> Hi all,
> I think that most on the list know a little about me by now. Ant has been
> posting a sort of chronological "Disconnection from the, I hope, soon to
> late and not lamented Church of Scientology.
> I have written the following, as there are so many on the list whose
> opinions I have come to value.
> Each time I connect to my mail I feel like someone living in the
outback who
> sees the postman coming down through the valley. My anticipation grows as I
> see the list of "Froms" and I force myself to read them in order
of arrival.
> When Phil or Clive or Heidrun, Paul or Clause or Ray or Ken are absent I
> feel a twinge of disappointment. Ant fortunately is always at the helm.
> Most if not all are "Free Scientologists" I have a suspicion that some are
> not flattered by the term Scientologist. I feel proud to be a
> Free-Scientologist.
> Some time ago, (Eight months now) I cut the umbilical cord to the Church of
> Scientology. May I finally say that the cord was woven with lies, deception
> and false hopes.
> I will not expound on the disconnection as I personally am over run on it.
> Moreover, I sincerely apologise to all, for inflicting this cadaver on you.
> I wish to thank all who supported me during the past eight months.
Those who
> privately supported me - Please accept my gratitude.
> Those intuitive souls like Ant, Ray and Phil will probably have already
> guessed that I have a further request.
> Of course, they are correct. So here goes.
> Now that I am a "Free ???" I am in the following quandary:
> There are a great number of "Clearing" sites accessible to one. The data is
> in the main, based on LRH's original tech. I am thoroughly disabused of the
> idea that, it is the only workable tech.
> Many rave about the "humbleness" of various founders of "New Tech" - Their
> reverence for those "humble" sources is on a par with what I previously
> experienced. I currently have no need to deify any one.
> Some give great detail of other universes. These do not interest
me, as they
> do not seem to have any applicability to now.
> Others seem more into PRing some or other tech then applying it. It seems
> that if you
> are not rich, you are in poor case shape. This is the same tactic currently
> employed by the church. OT 8's give their wins at events. They brag about
> their finances, which somehow proves how enlightened they are.
> Others like L.Kin, Electra, and Excalibur I find fascinating and very much
> to the point.
> I am a so-called "Clear". At least I was until 8 months ago. The
Church will
> have to cancel three certificates. I have read, and concur with
David Mayo's
> view of clear. Now I don't give a fig. (Does Ant frown on Army terms being
> used?) - Just joking. I know he doesn't - But I run a Scout Troop.
Tenth law
> "A scout is clean in thought word and deed" Like hell!
> I feel very comfortable with myself, especially now that I have attained
> "Total freedom". My bank manager is also happier.
> I feel I don't need OT levels. Is this a heretical statement?
> Maybe I do, but I don't feel any need to address Bt's. I actually
think that
> they are cool little guys and don't mind them attaching themselves to me.
> Possibly this is CASE that should be addressed. Either way it
doesn't bother
> me. ALSO, CASE?
> Whilst in this MEST universe, I have no particular desire to explore other
> universes. I would like to resolve this one. I think I am going to be in
> this one for quite a while. Therefore, I would like to improve it a bit. I
> want to be able to assist my fellow humans to live life better in their own
> estimation. (Guess who said that?)
> I would be willing to assist them whether they are Marcabians,
Pleiadians on
> Galactic patrol, or from Teeack, or just plain old Earth. The only way I
> know how to do this is with the Ethics tech and Auditing. The Admin and ORG
> tech I will leave to those who want to build large organizations.
> What I need is a reference to BASICS. In other words, to develop the skills
> to handle cases so that they can be happier, more productive
beings. So that
> when Hitler, Mugabe or Bush return, they can have a decent
childhood and not
> inflict their solutions on the rest of us.
> I have done Book 1 Auditing and can apply that - I still agree with the
> method if not the aims. I used to think that I knew the Ethics tech,
until I
> read posts on its correct application. I have used the New/Old ethics tech
> and it is very effective.
> I have found a different route for myself personally - However it is an
> individual process. That started sounding like the proverbial "Mystery
> sandwich" Not intended!
> I am doing TROM currently. I am not plugging TROM. It just seems
the way for
> me.
> TROM seems to be a bit above those who approach me. Basic tech is what is
> needed. Through IVy, I have gained a better understanding of the
tech. Also,
> certain fixed ideas I had, have been re-examined and sanitized.
> I find myself searching LRH's writing for ways to assist those who approach
> me for help. Why, because that is what I have been doing for years. I
> actually don't care whether he plagiarised Buddha or Genghis Khan.
If I felt
> my old Infantry hero Captain Sir Basil Liddell Hart's tactics
would help - I
> would use that.
> I wish to emphasize that I want to become a more proficient counsellor so
> that I can assist those that approach me. I counsel quite a few and have
> often sounded Ray Krenik to draw on his wisdom and experience. Ant has been
> instrumental in quite a few changes of viewpoint. Ant last replied that he
> would now have to get his Guru hat dry-cleaned.Or words to that effect.
> Therefore, what I hope to achieve with this "petition" is for someone who
> has crossed this chasm to indicate sources. I already know that post 1980
> tech is suspect. I actually consider post 1965-tech suspect. I am
willing to
> look at any viewpoint that indicates workable tech.
> I have only recently found that not all diseases are necessarily
> psychosomatic and that not every adverse event can be ascribed to PTSness.
> I am in a bit of a limbo regarding this.
> Martin Foster.
For data on International Viewpoints magazine
see Home Page: http://www.ivymag.org

Mon Jun 11 11:57:35 EDT 2007